RubySoho
Winston
I'm An Atheist And I'm Proud
November 19th 2008 23:10
Sometimes I get the feeling that some people think that atheists should be seen and not heard.
Why is that?
Why is it that religion is so widely accepted in our society that even religions that contradict each other are given equal time and yet atheists are expected to keep their lack of beliefs to themselves?
Not every religion can be the right religion. Either Jesus is the Messiah or he is not. Either Jesus is the Son of God or he is not. Either Mohammed was given the final revelation or he was not. Yet, there are literally hundreds of religions that believe varying degrees of the above and we are told that we must respect them all.
That makes no sense to me.
If Jesus was the Messiah then Judaism is wrong and Jews should convert to Christianity. If Gabriel did indeed command the illiterate Mohammed to read then Christianity is wrong and Christians, along with the newly converted Jews, should convert to Islam.
But that is just the tip of the iceberg. Each of the "great" monotheistic religions has scores of denominations, sects and sub-sects. All of which preclude and contradict the other. They cannot all be right. Which means most, if not all, are wrong.
And yet, I am told that I must respect them all.
Why?
People often accuse atheism of being a religion. Well we know that can't possibly be true. Because people respect religion. And atheism does not command such respect.
It seems that us atheists are fair game to be derided, scorned and belittled. And we are told we cannot speak up. Because if we speak up we are called bigots and hate mongers and liars. Merely discussing our (lack of) beliefs is called attacking religion.
Well I am tired of being told that I have no morals. That I don't feel compassion. That I am devoid of humanity.
Just because I don't believe in God.
No more.
I'm speaking up.
I don't believe in God.
I think people deserve to know all the options before they make up their minds.
And I won't be told to shut up.
I am an atheist.
And I am proud.
Why is that?
Why is it that religion is so widely accepted in our society that even religions that contradict each other are given equal time and yet atheists are expected to keep their lack of beliefs to themselves?
Not every religion can be the right religion. Either Jesus is the Messiah or he is not. Either Jesus is the Son of God or he is not. Either Mohammed was given the final revelation or he was not. Yet, there are literally hundreds of religions that believe varying degrees of the above and we are told that we must respect them all.
That makes no sense to me.
If Jesus was the Messiah then Judaism is wrong and Jews should convert to Christianity. If Gabriel did indeed command the illiterate Mohammed to read then Christianity is wrong and Christians, along with the newly converted Jews, should convert to Islam.
But that is just the tip of the iceberg. Each of the "great" monotheistic religions has scores of denominations, sects and sub-sects. All of which preclude and contradict the other. They cannot all be right. Which means most, if not all, are wrong.
And yet, I am told that I must respect them all.
Why?
People often accuse atheism of being a religion. Well we know that can't possibly be true. Because people respect religion. And atheism does not command such respect.
It seems that us atheists are fair game to be derided, scorned and belittled. And we are told we cannot speak up. Because if we speak up we are called bigots and hate mongers and liars. Merely discussing our (lack of) beliefs is called attacking religion.
Well I am tired of being told that I have no morals. That I don't feel compassion. That I am devoid of humanity.
Just because I don't believe in God.
No more.
I'm speaking up.
I don't believe in God.
I think people deserve to know all the options before they make up their minds.
And I won't be told to shut up.
I am an atheist.
And I am proud.
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Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
Movie Train
Artist Quirk
silly sausages . . .
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
Movie Train
Artist Quirk
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Comment by Earl Leonard
Cook Focus
Earlsthoughts
Comment by Wynona Lavota
Generation Y Life
IMO atheists are the unknown, the odd ones out-like immigrants or homosexuals so they're subject to discrimination because they represent something the theists are scared to explore in themselves. They're scared to question their beliefs, scared to think for themselves because maybe, if they find they cannot believe in their faith anymore due to inconsistancy, human rights abuse etc, what can they believe in? What will fill that void and make them feel safe like religion does? It's a scary thought, losing your comfort, part of your identity, so they attack atheists because they represent the threat of indpendent thought and possible challange to one's one religious beliefs.
Comment by Janet Collins
Acceptable Etiquette
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
Comment by Earl Leonard
Cook Focus
Earlsthoughts
Yeah, they'd be a tool... or, y'know, someone with a more sophisticated understanding of language and the usage of words that some try hard smart-arse with a (emphasis on the little) Latin and Greek. (Emoticons don't excuse you from being rude).
If we're talking strict definitions Theism, is belief in deities (gods) and is not synonymous with `religion' since there are religions, such as Taoism and Buddhism, where gods are not required (although some followers of these faiths do believe in the existence of gods, the religions' basic tenants are not dependant upon their existence). Similarly many pagan religions don't hold that the gods created the universe as you surmise, but only that they govern it.
However in day-to-day usage Atheism is used to mean non-religious. I.e. the meaning of a word is not precisely the same as its compounds.
And anyway I wasn't arguing that Atheism was a religion I said that it (meaning as a position) seemed too finite. Eg Since Atheism requires a belief that there are no gods or, more generally speaking, that the religions of the world are incorrect it has something in common with religions that Agnosticism (my position) does not. Belief.
While I think their is sufficient evidence to dismiss most major religions so called reasons behind their belief systems I refute the idea that this automatically dismisses the possibility of deities or indeed an accurate religion, and prefer to remain noncommittal to a position until a more workable theory is presented.
As to your second paragraph... your being simplistic but I don't disagree with some of your basic premises.
E.
RubySoho, thanks for the thought provoking mini manifesto!
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
I don't think atheism is like a religion at all, we have no sacraments, we make no prayers, we do not worship.
We simply go about living our lives without any regard for the supernatural.
Also, Is there really a significant difference between an agnostic and an atheist? Doesn't it amount to much the same thing ie we don't adhere to any religion?
Thanks for the comments everyone.
Comment by Wynona Lavota
Generation Y Life
When I made my point about the definition of atheism, I was refering to the part of the blog entry that says
not to anyone's comments.
I did not mean to be rude with my 'tool' comment and I used the emoticon to show that I meant no harm.
The definition of theism I used came straight form the Oxford Enlgish Dictionary, I argue that this is the strict definition of the word but people have used it to cover a wider range of religions.
Also with my last paragraph, of course I was being simplistic,
Comment by Earl Leonard
Cook Focus
Earlsthoughts
Ruby, like I said I don’t mean to say Atheism is a religion or indeed very much like a religion at all, but it is a philosophical position that requires an element of belief, (i.e. it has one thing in common with religion) and I prefer the subtly different position of agnosticism, that deems there is too little evidence one way or the other to form a definite opinion, so doesn't believe anything (but disbelieves plenty).
Its justifiable cynical fence sitting! Come on, give it a try!
Oops, now I'm acting like I'm in a religion...
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
If you asked me, (and I am aware nobody did), but if you did, I would probably say that Religion is to me (and always has been) a means of DIvide and Conquer, used to either (a) subordinate a minority group (usually something considered threatening and usually women) power to us I guess, which it soon will be as adepts at astrology will attest to...um.. where was I, oh yes, or (b) a means for those in power to segregate, control and destroy in the name of their saviour. Shoot to kill. Amen.
Sometimes, Like Lennon, when all is still I try to imagine a world with no religion at all, but that doesnt mean i am not a spiritual being, who is removed from the space I live in, subject to the same forces as the next human being in the next space... nor that that space in and around me has an intelligence that is above my own understanding and ignorance in equal doses. Nor that it may have an agenda which would be like trying to explain quantum physics to a sparrow and probably fry its brain.
So I have only the impermenance of my life to focus on, which brings me back to square one, where I realise that I am moved to move by an irresistable force, to unfold, to learn and to experience; most of all to grow in the abilities of forgiveness as a means of self preservation, which if ignored causes me great pain and suffering. I do not need a dogma to outline this truth to me, nor direct it, only to obey it to be happy. Does that make me an atheist?
What if everyone just knew they were important, and taken care off and loved, because that is what all these ostrecised Prophets were trying to tell us, (well except Mohammed who was actually a warrior king first, killing hundreds before changing his bad ways) ...
Protection from charismatic types is perhaps an atheists strongest protection?
*chuckle* I guess to answer your question (which was very thought provoking) .. everyone just assumes that if there is no God, Origin or UCA (Unknown Creative Agency) then there would be little to talk about because there would be nothing to argue over?
Lilla ...
.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
I'll comment in depth later tonight.
Cheers everyone, I'm glad my little declaration has inspired many to express their views.
Comment by Wynona Lavota
Generation Y Life
Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
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Artist Quirk
i know exactly the post you mean . . . and i dont blame you!
i think theres a few really antagonistic users on this site that are only interested in being rude to people and causing dramas
from the post in question:
im glad you found that as astounding as i did!
i think attempting to discuss things with people who arent open to listening seems to just put you in a "no-win" situation . . . but im glad you tried, i found your take on the certainty of fact to be a really interesting read!
Comment by jamoz
Jamoz's corner
Comment by Earl Leonard
Cook Focus
Earlsthoughts
Morgan, yeah, exactly.
I think in part people get so used to `sound bite' points and summaries (coupled with a pop cultural belief that twists `everyone has an equal right to an opinion' into `all opinions are equal') that their willingness to anylise the nuances of an argument diminishes. On the other hand I am a wordy bastard so I can't blame people for switching off too much!
It didn't help that half the time I couldn't understand what they were trying to say either (slang, poor syntax and bad jokes)!
Damn even when someone agrees with me I can't talk straight... my wife must have the patience of a saint.
Jamoz, I thought the whole point was that god heard you no matter how loudly you spoke? (Its more a question of how he responds...). And some falls are felix culpa and everyone diserves a chance of redemption (heck, God would forgive Lucifer if he but asked, or at least that's my understanding).
Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
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Artist Quirk
haha yes very bad jokes!
that particular brand of humour where they talk jibberish and attempt to bamboozle can be really grating at times . . . i think they need to get their dictionaries out and actually look up what a few words actually mean!
reading along with your blog id say your wife is one lucky lady, probing thoughtful discussion AND a personal chef! if you werent married you would be Cleo bachelor of the year!
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Hi Jeff, I also get upset when people equate atheism with amorailty. That's why i wrote my post on Secular Humanism.
Hi Lilla, I always like hearing your opinions, and this is no exception. Some of what you say is touched on by the Secualr Humanists declaration which differentiates between religious experience and the supernatural. You can be sprititual without having to accept all the trappings of religion.
Hi Jamoz, Well heck, if God would just give me a sign, I'll gladly retract my declarations of atheism.
Comment by Mike Crowl
Webitz
Work Report
I see that all the usual suspects have rounded themselves up to compliment themselves again on how great it is to be an atheist.
Oh, puleese. Stop sounding so pathetic. Atheists get plenty of air time, especially via Richard Dawkins.
Yeah, right. If atheists kept their views to themselves they'd be completely ignored, and that's something the average atheist can't cope with.
I don't know where you get this idea from. I've never read anywhere that atheists are supposed to respect anybody - and quite honestly, I've never read a blog or a book in which they do respect anybody else's beliefs. Seems to me you were just having a pity party day and all your friends joined in! LOL
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Mike Crowl
Webitz
Work Report
Seems to me atheists, at least those on blogs, spend most of their time moaning about the fact that people who believe in God/gods don't like them and don't agree with them. Perhaps it's time atheists just got on with it and stopped fussing so much. But then people would ignore you, and, from my understanding, atheists - in modern Western society at least - don't like to be ignored. They want everyone to hear that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Dawkins once compared saying you were an atheist to coming out of the closet. Yeah, right. Tell that to the homosexuals who really do have difficulties in life.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
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Comment by Mike Crowl
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Religion doesn't make life difficult for homosexuals; the fact of being a homosexual in the first place makes life difficult for them. Whether they like it or not, they're out of kilter with a world that is built on the male/female model.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Are you also denying that it is the Religious Right in America who is spearheading the discrimination against same sex couples by changing the law to ban same sex marriage? And that is religious politicians in Australia such as Steven Feliding who most vehemently oppose same sex marriage?
Are you also denying that the "world built in the male/female model" is based on the patriarchal religious system?
Out of kilter with the world? Sounds to me like you are blaming homosexuals for their own discrimination. Hey, if you guys would just stop being so different then we wouldn't have to pick on you!
And please don't talk to me about MY bias, Mike. Have a look at your comments. Atheists are this. Atheists are that. That's exactly what I am talking about. Religion demands respect despite the fact it affords none to those who disagree with it.
I'd be happy to have an actual discussion with you but if you think it is acceptable to come on here and ridicule me and then have the audacity to cry foul because I don't respect you back, then matey, you are on the wrong blog.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
I'm sorry, but I why should I have to deal with flack from people over my life choices. Choices which have NO effect on them? Being gay doesn't mean I want EVERYONE on earth to be gay, it's a personal choice, my choice!
Now, before someone pipes up and says, well if you choose to be gay, you can choose not to be- well, no I didn't choose to be gay, I just am, and I am content in myself... I have chosen however to live my life as an openly gay person, thus having to deal with faecal matter and prejudice from God bother'ers the world over!
I guess though, people that criticise my lifestyle are the ones trying to fill voids within their own... So what, I can't legally marry my partner; But since when did a piece of paper affirm that a couple's relationship was loving and committed? Certainly, I would get married if I could, but until then I'll remain content with the house and dog!
Oh, and Mike, you know, some people think it's worse to be Ugly than Gay... I like those people, cos in their eyes, you're the one out of kilter with the world!
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Mike Crowl
Webitz
Work Report
alt-ed, you jumped to conclusions about criticism of your lifestyle. If you'd read what I'd written, without assuming it was critical, you'd have seen that I don't criticise gays in the least in my comment.
As always on this blog, anyone who dares to speak against what's being said is labelled for being different. Hmm...that sounds pretty much like what you're accusing me of! LOL
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Dude, I think you labelled yourself with this comment:
And this:
And this:
And this
It's not that you are speaking out against what is being said. It's more that you are being a complete dick as you do it.
Comment by Mike Crowl
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Again, I will tell if you want an actual discussion then I will give it you. But you have not actually brought up any worthwhile points. All you have done is bag atheists.
Disagree with me all you like but don't expect me to show you respect after you have called me a pathetic, attention seeking pity-party holder.
Is that your idea of reasoned argument?
Comment by Mike Crowl
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Comment by Mike Crowl
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
If you are simply being a tool, get lost.
That's the usual response from my blog.
You are not disagreeing with me. You are being a tool. Get lost.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Although, who was Adam fucking before God created Eve... was he just getting some good ol'fashion God-Lovin?
Comment by Mike Crowl
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Did spelling it out in capitals make it any clearer? Because I simply can't think of any other way in which I can get through to you.
Comment by Mike Crowl
Webitz
Work Report
Your best way of avoiding the current situation would be to ignore those who provoke you, but it's interesting that every time I've responded you've had to try and have the last word...
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Comment by Postmodern Critic
Postmodern Critic
Daily Inspirations
Relativity Watch
Padsoc
Ruby, your '... to death' line recalls Buffy to me - were you ever a viewer or fan of this show?
Mike - A male/female model that everybody except homosexuals conform to? Your kind of startling narrow-mindedness recalls Ahmed. I'm sure you two would just LOVE each other.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
And no, I have never seen Buffy.
Comment by Mike Crowl
Webitz
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Glad to see you seem to have got your sense of humour back - thought you'd fallen down a large hole screaming for a bit there.
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