RubySoho
Winston
Seventeen Kids?? Ease Up On the Begetting, Please!
August 6th 2007 14:07
Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, of Tontitown, Arkansas, have just recently welcomed their seventeenth child into the world. Let's all give them a warm congra......wait a sec, seventeenth child? As in sixteen others before this one? Holy crap, do they all wear name tags? Look at the picture, I think they ARE wearing name tags....
According to the CNN news article linked to above, all of the children's names begin with J. I can only assume that this allows Jim Bob to bark out pretty much any name beginning with J and have a good chance at calling one of his kids. Now, it certainly is Jim Bob (man, I can't believe his name is Jim Bob. I couldn't make up a worse cliché) and Michelle's right to have as many children as they want, provided that the have the means to properly care for them. It seems that they do, considering that Jim Bob (it kills me every time I write that name) used to be a former state representative and now sells real estate. Their house is practically a dormitory, containing "dormitory-style bedrooms for the boys and girls, nine bathrooms, a commercial kitchen, four washing machines and four dryers." So, everyone's needs are being met. Great.
Or are they? Maybe meeting children's needs involves more than providing for them. I think it involves building close relationships with them as well. I'm sure that the happy couple loves their children very much; there's no reason to doubt that. But, how well can they really know them? Seventeen children means that each child could get about 45 minutes to an hour each day of one-on-one time with their parents, max. How well do teachers know their students? They might genuinely care about them and do their best to help them out, but simple logistics makes a deeper relationship impossible. How is this any different?
Speaking of teachers, how about the fact that all seventeen are home schooled (well, 15 maybe. I don't think the newest baby and the two-year-old are taking any classes yet, but who knows). How in the hell is this good? How is it even possible? Am I being led to understand that each day Michelle rolls out a lesson plan that includes basic letters and numbers for Justin, 4, spelling and arithmetic for Joy-Anna, 9, and trigonometry and chemistry for John David, 17? Home schooling is not an easy undertaking from what I understand, and it can't be done lightly. If home-schooled children are to be competitive with public school kids, they need to be taught fairly regularly and vigorously. It's hard work to teach one grade. Michelle is teaching what, ten grades? She must be a genius. Or, possibly, the kids are getting short-shrift on their education. Again, I couldn't say for sure, but I have to wonder if this is really a good thing.
The Bible tells Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply." Jim Bob and Michelle seem to have taken this message to heart. As their website says, "They prayed and asked God..... to teach them to love children like He loves children. They asked God to bless them with as many children as He saw fit in His timing." (By the way, isn't there a part in Leviticus about stoning unruly children to death? Yup, God loooooves kids). That's all well and good, but the parental obligation extends beyond birthing and feeding and clothing your kids. It involves knowing them, deeply. It involves giving them your undivided attention, which is pretty tough when there's sixteen others with problems as well.
If you wish to read more about the Duggar's daily schedule, click here to visit the FAQ page on their website. It answers some of the questions I've raised, but not in an entirely satisfactory way. Checklists to monitor progress "at a glance"? Sounds like a business, not a household. Older siblings teaching their younger siblings rather than focusing on a full day of education for themselves? The doctrine of J-O-Y (Jesus first, Others second, & Yourself last)? How about family first? What about teaching the kids to recognize their own needs and assert themselves? How about teaching your children self-reliance? Nope. Jesus first, because apparently he's needy. As for the older children's education, I could do a whole post on this. Their "higher" learning comes from a home-schooling program called the ATI (Advanced Training Institute International), which is designed to inject Jesus and Christianity into every possible aspect of every possible course. Their "Wisdom Booklets" contains wisdom such as:
"We believe the Bible is the verbally inspired Word of God and is the sole, infallible rule of faith and practice.
We believe Adam was directly created in innocence and in the image of God and did not evolve from preexisting forms of life. By voluntary transgression, he fell; and thus the whole human race is now sinful by nature and practice and, therefore, under just condemnation to eternal separation from God.
We believe Satan is a living being and that hell is a place of eternal conscious punishment for him, his hosts, and all unbelievers."
(italics added by me for emphasis)
So, Adam and Eve really existed as two naked lovers in a Garden and because of their supposed screw-up every other person who is ever born is automatically a sinful, evil creature worthy of punishment by God. Evolutionary biology is a lie, despite all the evidence, because it disagrees with the Bible. And Satan is a real demon who stalks the earth in search of souls. Oh yeah, plus, the Bible is literally right about everything. Sounds like a hell of an education. Good luck, kids.
Jim Bob and Michelle say they want more. Michelle, you've been pregnant for eleven years of your life. You guys have enough kids to start your own town. Please, use a condom and spend some more time with the kids you already have.
Opinions?
Sweet jumpin' Jesus on a hot tin roof, that's a lot of kids! (picture from Associated Press)
According to the CNN news article linked to above, all of the children's names begin with J. I can only assume that this allows Jim Bob to bark out pretty much any name beginning with J and have a good chance at calling one of his kids. Now, it certainly is Jim Bob (man, I can't believe his name is Jim Bob. I couldn't make up a worse cliché) and Michelle's right to have as many children as they want, provided that the have the means to properly care for them. It seems that they do, considering that Jim Bob (it kills me every time I write that name) used to be a former state representative and now sells real estate. Their house is practically a dormitory, containing "dormitory-style bedrooms for the boys and girls, nine bathrooms, a commercial kitchen, four washing machines and four dryers." So, everyone's needs are being met. Great.
Or are they? Maybe meeting children's needs involves more than providing for them. I think it involves building close relationships with them as well. I'm sure that the happy couple loves their children very much; there's no reason to doubt that. But, how well can they really know them? Seventeen children means that each child could get about 45 minutes to an hour each day of one-on-one time with their parents, max. How well do teachers know their students? They might genuinely care about them and do their best to help them out, but simple logistics makes a deeper relationship impossible. How is this any different?
Speaking of teachers, how about the fact that all seventeen are home schooled (well, 15 maybe. I don't think the newest baby and the two-year-old are taking any classes yet, but who knows). How in the hell is this good? How is it even possible? Am I being led to understand that each day Michelle rolls out a lesson plan that includes basic letters and numbers for Justin, 4, spelling and arithmetic for Joy-Anna, 9, and trigonometry and chemistry for John David, 17? Home schooling is not an easy undertaking from what I understand, and it can't be done lightly. If home-schooled children are to be competitive with public school kids, they need to be taught fairly regularly and vigorously. It's hard work to teach one grade. Michelle is teaching what, ten grades? She must be a genius. Or, possibly, the kids are getting short-shrift on their education. Again, I couldn't say for sure, but I have to wonder if this is really a good thing.
The Bible tells Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply." Jim Bob and Michelle seem to have taken this message to heart. As their website says, "They prayed and asked God..... to teach them to love children like He loves children. They asked God to bless them with as many children as He saw fit in His timing." (By the way, isn't there a part in Leviticus about stoning unruly children to death? Yup, God loooooves kids). That's all well and good, but the parental obligation extends beyond birthing and feeding and clothing your kids. It involves knowing them, deeply. It involves giving them your undivided attention, which is pretty tough when there's sixteen others with problems as well.
If you wish to read more about the Duggar's daily schedule, click here to visit the FAQ page on their website. It answers some of the questions I've raised, but not in an entirely satisfactory way. Checklists to monitor progress "at a glance"? Sounds like a business, not a household. Older siblings teaching their younger siblings rather than focusing on a full day of education for themselves? The doctrine of J-O-Y (Jesus first, Others second, & Yourself last)? How about family first? What about teaching the kids to recognize their own needs and assert themselves? How about teaching your children self-reliance? Nope. Jesus first, because apparently he's needy. As for the older children's education, I could do a whole post on this. Their "higher" learning comes from a home-schooling program called the ATI (Advanced Training Institute International), which is designed to inject Jesus and Christianity into every possible aspect of every possible course. Their "Wisdom Booklets" contains wisdom such as:
"We believe the Bible is the verbally inspired Word of God and is the sole, infallible rule of faith and practice.
We believe Adam was directly created in innocence and in the image of God and did not evolve from preexisting forms of life. By voluntary transgression, he fell; and thus the whole human race is now sinful by nature and practice and, therefore, under just condemnation to eternal separation from God.
We believe Satan is a living being and that hell is a place of eternal conscious punishment for him, his hosts, and all unbelievers."
(italics added by me for emphasis)
So, Adam and Eve really existed as two naked lovers in a Garden and because of their supposed screw-up every other person who is ever born is automatically a sinful, evil creature worthy of punishment by God. Evolutionary biology is a lie, despite all the evidence, because it disagrees with the Bible. And Satan is a real demon who stalks the earth in search of souls. Oh yeah, plus, the Bible is literally right about everything. Sounds like a hell of an education. Good luck, kids.
Jim Bob and Michelle say they want more. Michelle, you've been pregnant for eleven years of your life. You guys have enough kids to start your own town. Please, use a condom and spend some more time with the kids you already have.
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Comment by Sho Kosugi
Shoukai
Sho suggests, let us DDT their house so their brood may plague us no longer!
Comment by Onesnap
I also grew up with a family that had 13 kids. After one of the youngest chased me with a knife it became obvious to me that having 13 of this type of kid was a BIG mistake.
Huge difference between both families.
I believe too strongly in college education for one's offspring and for those kids to have what I had growing up. I could never have 17 children knowing that there was no way they would not grow up in the manner I feel strongly about.
The family of 12 is a major exception to the rule, they all grew up very well. The one with 13 is just a horror show.
Comment by katyzzz
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I suspect the homeschooling is done with help coming in.
How much do families with one or two kids practice love?
I think this is a wonderful story, could not have done it myself.
It is my dream, my fantasy and isn't it great to see a man who makes a lot of money actually wanting a large family.
I could not have done it myself, didn't do 3 particularly well. Close bonds? Failed that one. One's genes and theirs come into play and not the ones you wear around your hips.
I think if I were the mother I'd be feeling very tired by now.
They've obviously put a lot of thought into their family and I'm sure there is much love.
I think small families leave a lot to be desired with some parents wanting to impose their own ideas to which all children do not respond.
Raising a family generally turns out differently to what we expected, take due warning Winston, but do have one.
No-one requires you to have a lot of children, no-one should require this couple not to.
Always look on the bright side of life. I think now I may need the rest of the day off from blogging.
katyzzz
Comment by Louie
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Just a thought but maybe they are closer for spending less one on one time together, maybe it gives the parents the space not to micromanage their childhood and the kids learn from each other as well..... just a though I know nought...great post
Comment by KylieW
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And ask for their philosophy of Jesus first, Others second and Yourself last. Well, of course you have to put yourself last in a family of 17!!!!!!!
It's a case of different strokes for different folks I guess. But 17 kids seems a ridiculous number to have and I think they should stick to raising the ones they've got......rather than continuing to create more kids!
Comment by Lara M
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Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Thanks for the comment!
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
As for how much smaller families practice love, I don't think that love is quantified by the number of kids present. There can be loving/unloving small families and loving/unloving large families. The difference between a large and small family is not love but attention. Children in a smaller family may not receive any more or less love, but they must necessarily have an easier time getting one-on-one attention from their parents.
Of course you're right, no one can impose one way or another on how many children a couple has. One can, however, appeal to common sense. In the end the decision rests with the involved party only, while the rest of us jabber about it on the sidelines.
Thanks for the feedback
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
You may be right about the positive aspects of such a large family. In fact, I'm sure that the sibling dynamic is quite unique and probably is beneficial on several levels. I'm not saying that every aspect of this is bad. I do think, though, that there are pitfalls to having this many children that are not being addressed. As I said to katyzzz, no one can stop them from having all the kids they want, and no one should stop them. Personally, I believe that they should stop themselves, though, and spend time enjoying their current brood instead of expanding it.
Thanks for the comment!
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Man, imagine how long it takes for everyone to get showered in the morning? Their hot water heater must be the size of a swimming pool.
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Then again, I may just be reacting to their home-schooling program in general, as it is complete malarky. I would have enough problems with one kid using that program, but it's even more upsetting that 17 of them will be fed that garbage.
Who knows, they may end up being the most well-adjusted, happy kids on the planet. It's entirely possible. I still think it's nuts, but who am I?
Comment by D. Armenta
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Things have changed since the 1920s, though. The methods of regimentation necessary to raise and educate that many kids would be considered "cruelty" nowadays. Also, taxes exist now that didn't then..taxes that are imposed on the many of us who don't have kids..to support kids. I've no problem with paying a portion to the community, but that has to go both ways. People who have that many kids are putting a strain on tax dollars that could be used in a hundred better places.
People bred huge families out of necessity in the old days; cheap farm labor, populate the territories, and so on. Why now?