RubySoho
Winston
Meanwhile, The Vatican Continues Its Slide Into Irrelevancy
January 4th 2009 00:50
Not two weeks after the Pope claimed that homosexuals were as dangerous a threat to the survival of the human race as Climate Change, the Vatican has done it again. Ladies, did you know that your contraceptive pill is making your man sterile? No really, read on, because apparently, the Vatican has "proof", even though they won't share it. From Yahoo News:
The contraceptive pill is polluting the environment and is in part responsible for male infertility, a report in the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano said on Saturday.
The pill "has for some years had devastating effects on the environment by releasing tonnes of hormones into nature" through female urine, said Pedro Jose Maria Simon Castellvi, president of the International Federation of Catholic Medical Associations, in the report.
"We have sufficient evidence to state that a non-negligible cause of male infertility in the West is the environmental pollution caused by the pill," he said, without elaborating further.
The pill "has for some years had devastating effects on the environment by releasing tonnes of hormones into nature" through female urine, said Pedro Jose Maria Simon Castellvi, president of the International Federation of Catholic Medical Associations, in the report.
"We have sufficient evidence to state that a non-negligible cause of male infertility in the West is the environmental pollution caused by the pill," he said, without elaborating further.
I really love the last sentence, "without elaborating further". Proof? Pfffft! Who needs that? We're the Vatican!
And the assault om women's rights continues. This is particularly insidious as once again, it completely negates the rights and desires of women and somehow, breathtakingly, spectacularly manages to make the Pill, that marvel of modern medicine which allowed women control over their lives and bodies in a way never seen before about men.
Of course, no one with any sense is taking this the least bit seriously:
"Once metabolised, the hormones contained in oral contraceptives no longer have any of the characteristic effects of feminine hormones," said Gianbenedetto Melis, vice-president of a contraceptive research association, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
The hormones contained in the pill such as oestrogen "are present everywhere... in plastic, in disinfectants, in meat that we eat," added Flavia Franconi, of the Society of Italian Pharmacology.
The hormones contained in the pill such as oestrogen "are present everywhere... in plastic, in disinfectants, in meat that we eat," added Flavia Franconi, of the Society of Italian Pharmacology.
Thanks Vatican. Nice knowin' ya. You meant something once.
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Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
No, I don't think the Pill is entirely harmless. But I do find it galling that the Church appears to be more concerned with its so-called effect on men than on the women who take it. Which leads me to question its motives for making the statement.
Until the Church is willing to reveal its so-called evidence then yes, I will dismiss it as to me it smacks of nothing but yet another attempt by the Church to control the lives and bodies of women.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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Yes, I do agree with you that the concern is more about men. It always is - and not just from the church. I first read something about hormones in the eco-system a few years ago but to me it was just stating the bleeding obvious. And I have never viewed the contraceptive pill as a freedom for women. Quite the opposite. It is a pity that it takes a threat to men's wellbeing before people start to think about this issue. Women's concerns are never taken as seriously as men's but this must be expected since men control the world (and what a job they're doing!)
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
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Artist Quirk
i note that the finger wasnt being pointed at all the steroids that get washed down the urinal by men
i think sterility usually boils down to ill-fitting underwear, STIs and fevers, and childhood traumas to the nether-regions . . . not to mention the age people are now attempting to produce children . . . i havent heard of any widespread infertility, more couples are just choosing not to breed
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
My point is that there is no threat to men's wellbeing due to the Pill. At least not in the way that the Vatican is attempting to paint it. If the Pill is making men sterile, then the onus is on the people making the claim to provide some sort of evidence to substantiate the claim. As I stated in the article, the claim has been disputed by many experts in the field of pharmacology and contraceptive research.
I won't go into your comment re how the pill is actually hindering women's freedom as I find it a rather outlandish claim. I guess I can only assume that you are of the opinion that a woman's primary purpose is to breed and that she should be at the mercy of her reproductive organs at all times.
Hi Jeff,
I'm yet to read any study showing that the Pill has a significant negative impact on the environment. And certainly not that it is responsible for lack of fertility in men.
Thanks Morgan,
My point exactly.
Comment by m
I accept that your opinion, on this issue may differ widely from mine but I find it astounding that you want to support it only because the Catholic pope has spoken out against it.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Is an article that points to some real concerns. Of course, the fact that medications getting into water supplies is a problem doesn't explain the Vatican's zeal for one part of that problem...
Comment by m
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Third, you said that the Pill compromised womens freedom. In what way? I have heard this argument before and almost invariably it seems to spring from a viewpoint which, like the Church itself, maintains that women are breeders and that nothing should interfer with the reproductive process. If this is not your own point of view then please, put yours forward.
Fourth, the reason I dismissed the claim was because a). it was completely bias against women and b). NO EVIDENCE WAS PROVIDED.
Fifth, I do think each and every woman should have the right to decide for herself what she wishes to ingest and why.
Last but not least, I criticise the Church because I find its agenda to be completely anti-woman. As long as they make ridiculous statements which demean my rights to bodily autonomy, then I will speak out against them. And that include ludicrous and unverified suggestions that women are to blame for male infertitlity. And i am astounded that you actually acknowledged the "rampant sexism" of the Church and then incredibly asked me why I would attack the Church. You just answered your own question.
It's because of its rampant sexism.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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I did not ask you why you attacked the church. As far as I am concerned, not only are people justified in questioning what the church does, they would be utterly foolish to not do so. What I asked was: Why do you feel such a hatred for the church that you automatically assume what church leaders say is rubbish and what the opposition says is right.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
And how ironic that you would accuse me of that when the whole, entire point of this post was to throw attention on the wild unsubstantiated statements made by the Church.
Why do I think the Church's view on this is rubbish?
Like I have already stated four or five times because they did not verify their claims. You can't just come and out and say that the Pill makes men sterile and expect people to believe you on face value alone.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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The EPA suspects that part of the problem is consumers flushing old and unwanted drugs down toilets or drains. Americans are taking more drugs than ever -- especially the aging baby boomer generation. Pharmaceuticals were found in 80 percent of the samples taken during a U.S. Geological Survey and EPA study of 139 streams in 30 states. Many of America's wastewater treatment plants are not designed to remove pharmaceuticals and personal care products, the EPA says.
The suspected causes include "previously banned compounds…such as DDT and chlordane, natural and anthropogenic hormones, herbicides, fungicides, industrial chemicals and an emerging group of compounds that may act as endocrine disruptors,"
Really Long Link
Really Long Link
we know that in the USA that trace pharmaceuticals are present in waterways and they are the suspected cause of fish and amphibian mutations, like intersex fish and disproportionately large female populations
but as stated above there is a wide range of drugs and chemicals present in toxin testing
the estrogen and progesterone is likely to be from whole contraceptive pills being discarded rather than human excrement/urine
those female hormones are also used in menopause and breast cancer medications, in food products, and for a host of retail, commercial, and industrial purposes, where bulk amounts would be illegally dumped, flushed, or sent to landfill where they leach into the groundwater
in my opinion it is way too simplistic to blame birth control on the pollution problem, even if every woman ceased taking the pill today the environmental issues would still exist
it would be like saying the dioxins in the urine of all the smokers in Vietnam were more of a contributing cause to genetic mutations than Agent Orange
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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Yes, we all know that there are many pollutants being pumped into our waterways. Yes, the vatican has seized upon one contributer to pollution. Yes, apportioning blame to this one contributer conveniently suits the Vatican's agenda.
But no sensible person would claim that birth-control pills are solely responsible for the world's pollution. I haven't seen that claim, have you?
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Sorry, but did you actually read my article? It's the claim that the Pill makes men sterile that I don't take seriously, not that it may be harmful to the environment.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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I have observed your arguments with others, Ruby, and I have had exchanges with you myself. Most notably, for me, on your post about Secular Humanism. When cornered, you wriggled away like a politician. I asked myself if this was deliberate obtuseness but saw that you were simply unable to make the leap towards even considering that your opponents' arguments had a measure of validity. It became clear to me then that you did not have the mental acuity to engage in serious debate and I felt a bit sorry for you.
You are like a little kid, yelling out an insult and then blocking your ears to the response. Whatever your age, you should try to develop an understanding of others instead of seeing all those who disagree with you as the enemy.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
What exactly is your problem here? If you must know I stopped answering you on the Secular Humanism post because I found you to be a dreadful bore and was too polite to say so.
You are the one who has come on here accusing me of flinging scorn and insults when it is you who has been insulting me, culminating in your claim that I lack mental acuity.
Feel sorry for me if you must but do it somewhere else okay? I've had it.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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You're right about that Secular Humanism post. I even bored myself! "When is this thing going to end?" I kept thinking, as my energy was draining away. But I was curious to see how long it would take before you would admit that any opinion contrary to your own had a degree of validity. It didn't happen. Your argument with Ahmed became convoluted, mainly because you sidesepped the points he was making.. David tried to inject some humour with his comments but you got offended. Mike made a comment you didn't like and you told him to go away, too. At that point, I didn't want to add any more because I felt sure you would think you were being ganged-up on. Morgan stepped in to you defence by offering an analogy that was meant to show your opponents what Secular Humanism meant. She didn't need to. We all got it! But you didn't get what anyone else was trying to say. You were so fixated on extolling the virtues of wonderful Secular Humanism and so determined that Secular Humanism could not, in any way, share some of the constructs of religion - that thing you so despise - that you point blank refused to accept that there were some glaring points of similarity. Any thinking person could see that. But, like I said - and I'm just being totally honest, not flinging insults - your opinions come across as narrow, bigoted and slightly hysterical. And it seems that you can't accept criticism because your belief in your own opinions is actually rather shaky.
Are you really are done with this now?
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
In case you hadn't noticed I have been avoiding Orble lately because of people such as yourself and if it's all the same to you I would much prefer it if you would do me the courtesy of avoiding my blog.
Thanks.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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I hadn't given your Secular Humanism post a second thought until I saw this one; droning on once more about the Catholic church. I hadn't noticed your absence from Orble because I haven't been here myself. Score? Fight? If you are prepared to publicly state your opinion you should stop your whingeing when people disagree with you.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
2. I didn't mention the Church in my Secular Humanism post.
3. You sure gave a lot of detail for someone who hadn't given the post a second third.
4. I don't care that you disagree. Disagree all you like. If you can find any sort of evidence that the Pill causes male infertility then I will get down on my knees and give both you and the Pope himself a big fat apology. Until then, I don't see how you can attack my argument when you actually have no counter argument of your own. So, you have instead chosen to attack me. Ruby has a narrow agenda. Ruby is hysterical. Ruby lacks mental acuity. Ruby has very limited understanding. Ruby is a bigot. Blah, blah, blah. Why on earth would I want to engage in conversation with people who say such things?
Get the picture? Good. Now go away.
Comment by Thoraiya Dyer
Demented World
And don't stop posting just because people can't disagree without getting personal and insulting.
Getting personal and insulting is easy.
Getting results of legitimate scientific studies (such as those provided by Morgan - thank you, Morgan) takes time and effort.
Of course, scientific studies are meaningless to the Vatican. If the Pope weighed up the evidence of centuries of scientific study, he would find little to no backing for claims such as God Created The World In Seven Days, Homosexuals Will Burn In Hell, and Condoms Are Against God's Wishes.
Not finding scientific evidence important for his own decision-making processes, why should he suspect that others would prefer scientific evidence for their decision-making processes?
It is that disregard for evidence which offends not just Ruby, but people like myself, who view the Pope - and anyone else who condemns barrier contraception in the face of a global HIV epidemic - as a mass-murderer of unconscionable proportions.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Now, Teresa are you a fully fledged 'GREENIE', OR did you just buy a couple of reusable shopping bags at the local safeway once??!
And WHO gives a FUCK about the POPE-- It's fucking Scientology that's killing everyone these days - PROOF HERE!
Now, for the rest of you, there's a fabulous movie that explains all of this: Children of Men (click here)
"In 2027, in a chaotic world in which humans can no longer procreate, a former activist agrees to help transport a miraculously pregnant woman to a sanctuary at sea, where her child's birth may help scientists save the future of humankind."
Now fuck off!
P.s. Ruby, happy NY! And I look forward to avoiding you when your in Syd
Comment by Teresa Ralton
MRS SMITH
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I can't help but think of 'greenies' as self-righteous wankers but ... I do my best to save the planet. I won't say more, having assured Ruby I would never again visit her blog (have only done so because you directed a question to me). I am about to do a post, myself, on the pill. I guess it's not something you would have given much thought to but there must be a few females in your life...
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
If you don't want to visit Ruby's blog, could you perhaps direct your questions to me somewhere you feel more comfortable?
To answer this question though, on your last visit to Ruby's blog
Yes. There are a 'few' females in my life, one of them is a 3yr old Staffie cross, the other is my Mother. Apart from that I only know of Transvestites and Men.
And why do you have such a warped view on those who live green? Where's your climate-conscience? I bet you're one of 'those' people who wear Birkenstokes and claim it's due to there superior and supple comfort- SHEEP!
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Thanks for being the voice of reason alt_ed. Good to know you 'hate' me for just reasons. I don't actually take the Pill, but I'll accept responsibility for your ill health anyway. Ah those wacky Scientologists. Quite frankly, i don't find them any more or less nutty than any other religious group, yet they do seem to receive more flak than most others. Go figure.
Nice way to plug your post Teresa. That's quite audacious, I must say. Using the blog of someone who has repeatedly asked to you to stop visiting to flog your own work.
Comment by Postmodern Critic
Postmodern Critic
Daily Inspirations
Relativity Watch
Padsoc
Thanks for bringing this to my attention...
Comment by Postmodern Critic
Postmodern Critic
Daily Inspirations
Relativity Watch
Padsoc
Comment by Morgan Bell
Deep Pencil
Current Business News
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Artist Quirk
oh is this where we make requests that Teresa doesnt visit us? haha
did you guys see THIS about the Pope condemning condoms?